The Last Reasonable Man

Bill Clinton, as he was for much of the 90s, is the last reasonable man.

"The Republican Party said 'OK, we'd like to win Florida in the fall so we are gonna invoke our rule, they got out of turn, we will seat their delegates as half a delegate and seat their superdelegates,' " Clinton said at a campaign event in Missoula, Mon. "That is an appropriate penalty." -- Bill Clinton at a campaign rally last week

From:  http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2008/05/bill-clinton--1.html

But maybe that's not good enough--maybe Hillary needs to get Bill on board:

Sen. Clinton dismissed the suggestion, saying she would insist on 100 percent representation for Florida.

"I think that is disingenuous but it's also insulting to the 1.7-million Floridians who actually turned out to vote," Clinton, D-N.Y., said of Obama's proposal, according to today's St. Petersburg Times.

From:  http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/st ate/article518651.ece

What we know--what has been proven--is that while Hillary certainly cares about the MI and FL delegations, her interest is served by making no accomodation on them and instead taking the issue to the convention.  She is less concerned with their voices being heard than she is by her candidacy being preserved.

This is why I suggested earlier today that Obama agree to seat the MI and FL delegations as they stand--but I was wrong, which is why I deleted the diary.  Seat FL with half a vote each, granting no superdelegate votes for the state, and do the same for MI (granting Obama the uncommitted vote).  Anything less is just not acceptable in any kind of meaningful way.

Hillary, again, would best be served by ensuring everyone affiliated with the campaign is on the same page--even Bill.

Then again, Bill's position on this is reasonable.  Maybe it is he who should be ensuring the rest of her campaign is on board.



Display:


Wait for it (none / 0)

the hand full of "all or nothings" are about to throw  the Big Dawg under the bus for dissenting.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:16:35 PM EST

Recommended (none / 0)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:17:46 PM EST

I have an additional problem with penalties (none / 0)

Why should parties ban any other state except Iowa, NH, and SC from having contests in January?  There was nothing else going on that last week of January after SC.


by lombard on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:44:04 PM EST

it caused IA and NH to move up their dates (none / 0)

Iowa had to move up it's date, from Jan 14 to Jan 3rd in response to these states moving their contest dates.

http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2007/10/ the-iowa-caucuses-do-we-have-a-date/

same thing with NH.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:03:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, so they were bumped (none / 0)

Still, there ought to be some sort of rotating of early states and a more even schedule.  What we have now is crazy.  22 contests on one day in the beginning of February, another large group following in February, and almost nothing from the middle of March until the latter part of April.  Then, a handful of final stragglers over the next month and a half.


by lombard on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, so they were bumped (none / 0)

That's really a separate question--and if anything, rewarding FL and MI by granting full delegations will only lead to more gamesmanship in the primary/caucus season.


"The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy."
by AK Democrat on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Which is exactly why (none / 0)

seating FL and MI without penalty would mark the end of any planned calendar for the nomination.  The DNC would continue to raise funds but have no realistic claim to enforce any dates for primaries, let alone try to move Iowa and New Hampshire off their thrones.


by McNasty on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Man (2.00 / 1)

I can't remember the last time Bill Clinton was on-message with the rest of his wife's campaign.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:52:53 PM EST

Re: The Last Reasonable Man (none / 0)

Bill Clinton has been added to the Judas list.


by Pat Flatley on Thu May 22, 2008 at 04:59:28 PM EST

Apparently the shorter list (none / 0)

is the non-Judas one now.

I wonder in retrospect how much Bill Clinton has hurt his wife's candidacy.  I think it's fairly clear his actions overall have not helped.  But his major gaffes and disagreements were probably mostly pounced upon by bloggers like us rather than the public at large.

Still, he hurt her.  She hurt herself, too, but Bill was off the rails.


by McNasty on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:56:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Last Reasonable Man (none / 0)

explain what entitles Obama to all the uncommitted MI votes? There were several other candidates polling well at that time.


by rocky on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:09:38 PM EST

Re: The Last Reasonable Man (none / 0)

didn't Edwards say that he thought Obama should get the uncommitted delegates?  can a candidate officially "release" their delegates to another candidate?  seems like there is a way around this.


by the mollusk on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Last Reasonable Man (none / 0)

First off, no one is entitled to anything in an unfair and undemocratic election. But that would be a good deal for Hillary considering the votes will most likely be split 50/50. She really should jump at it.


by Becky G on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Last Reasonable Man (none / 0)

explain what entitles Obama to all the uncommitted MI votes? There were several other candidates polling well at that time.

Well, no one is entitled to any votes in MI because the election was a sham. But if Obama wants to be more than fair, he can agree to accept the uncommitted votes. Almost everyone else in the race at the time has already endorsed him, so I think it's fair that he gets all of those votes.


by RP McMurphy on Thu May 22, 2008 at 05:40:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Last Reasonable Man (none / 0)

I agree with Bill - at the very least the penalty should mirror what the Republicans did.  To anymore would risk losing Florida in the fall election.

I just love Bill - seeing him and Chelsea last weekend in Oregon was one of the highlights of my political activist career.  


by JustJennifer on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:01:46 PM EST

Re: The Last Reasonable Man (none / 0)

As much as I disagree with Hillary's action and tone, and as much as I think Bill's "Jesse Jackson" comment was the thing that did in Hillary's AA vote, and perhaps her campaign in those states, I still have love for you, Bill.  Best president since Kennedy.  Perhaps only until Jan 09, though.


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Thu May 22, 2008 at 06:02:14 PM EST

Re: The Last Reasonable Man (none / 0)

I disagree with Bill.  If anyone shouldn't get seated, it's the superdelegates from FL and MI.  They, not the voters, are the ones who are culpable for this mess.

Seat FL/MI's pledged delegates 50%, give all uncommitted delegates and votes in MI to Obama, and show FL/MI superdelegates - and any other state party poobahs who might be thinking of gaming the system in 2012 - exactly what the consequences are by not seating them.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 22, 2008 at 07:32:47 PM EST


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